Episode 94: Roger Ver Interview: Electronic Cash
We have a lot going on in this episode—what’s happening in the US these days, an interview with a key figure of Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin.com, and your favorite fight to watch.
For News Break, we talk about the protests that sweep the nation and the world because of George Floyd’s death at the hands of Minneapolis Police Officer, Derek Chauvin.
In Token Time, we feature Bitcoin Cash (BCH)—the numbers, the difference between Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash, and our insights on the project.
Because of our interview with Roger Ver and finding out about him being a single stripe brown belt in jiu-jitsu, we talk about fight styles in Manspreading. We also share our experience with fist fights growing up.
Finally, we talk to Roger Ver—his personal experience with the police, his opinion on the protests, and voluntaryism as a philosophy.
He also comments on being called as the “old guard of crypto” in the Bitcoin Billionaires book consequently providing a brief history of Bitcoin, and the surrounding circumstances involving the project—like what happened to Charlie Shrem and the Winklevoss Twins.
Roger Ver further shares the vision of the adoption for Bitcoin Cash as a digital currency and what you can extensively do with this electronic cash.
Time Stamps of Segments
02:29 News Break
08:06 Token Time
18:48 Interview with Roger Ver
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Episode 94: Roger Ver Interview: Electronic Cash
Hey friends, we’re glad you tuned in to this episode of Beards and Bitcoins, a Crypto Podcast for the man’s man. And all you beard-loving ladies. In this vast kingdom of nerdy incels, two men stand out as different from the crowd. BitBoy and JChains were both voted least nerdy in high school. Join them each week as they discuss all the hottest topics in cryptocurrency, as well as the fan favorite segment, Manspreading. So, make sure to hit subscribe and turn on those downloads. Here are the dudes Ben and Justin.
JChains: Hey guys, welcome back to Beards and Bitcoins. We are your Crypto Podcast for the man’s man and the ladies that love them. I’m your co-host JChains, as always with me is my homie, BitBoy, Ben Armstrong. Got a great show planned for you, man. Why won’t you tell them all about it.
BitBoy: Yeah, we got a lot going on in the United States right now. And that’s what we’re going to touch on in News Break. Then for Token Time, we’re going to be taking a look at a coin. We actually have a key figure from on the podcast today. Very excited. Roger Ver from Bitcoin Cash or from Bitcoin.com really will be here for an interview and we’ve already done the interview, it’s phenomenal. You guys are going to love it. It’s very, very, very interesting talking about the history of Bitcoin and some other things and you may not know this, but he actually is a brown belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. So, for Manspreading we are going to be talking about what is your favorite kind of fight to watch? We’re not going to get into specific MMA styles, but we got some pretty good fights. We want to pick out that, we want you to choose, what is going to be your very favorite. I think it might be a close race today for sure.
JChains: Oh, absolutely. I think we should hopefully get some good engagement on that because it’ll be a good one.
BitBoy: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Speaking of engaging, let’s get to one of the most engaging crypto wallets around, which is Monarch. The Beards and Bitcoins Crypto Podcast is brought to you by Monarch Wallet. Rule your own financial kingdom from the palm of your hand.
JChains: That is right, sir. The team at Monarch, they are working hard to bring you the one app to access all the best crypto services. These guys believe in delivering tech, not hype.
BitBoy: That’s right with the Universal Decentralized Monarch Wallet. You can buy, store, spend and earn crypto with monarch pay, you can set up and accept recurring crypto payments.
JChains: Absolutely. So, for more information, check out monarchwallet.com or monarchtoken.io today.
BitBoy: That’s right. So, we got a busy show. Let’s jump into News Break.
2:30 NEWS BREAK
BitBoy: Alright guys, so we all understand what the news is. We all understand what is happening right now. It’s kind of transcending crypto, kind of like we saw with the pandemic like this is all everybody’s talking about, which are the riots over George Floyd’s death at the hands of officer Derek Chauvin, in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and it’s touched off riots all across the world. And while chaos seems to be what a lot of people in cryptocurrency want, it doesn’t seem to be helping the Bitcoin price, the chaos that’s going on, just like it doesn’t seem to be helping any businesses out there. So, kind of what are your thoughts on what’s going on with all this, J?
JChains: Oh, man, it’s tough, right? It’s tough to, one, be in a position—I’m a white male and I live in the suburbs, right? So, if people are, you know, pissed about white privilege. I know, I understand that. But I stand in solidarity with everybody. Like, I don’t take anything for granted. And I don’t think most people that I know do. It’s a movement that needs to happen. People need their voices need to be heard. But when you turn into the looting and the rioting, it’s not protesting anymore, it’s creating damage, it’s committing crimes. And so now what you’re seeing is that we’re protesting police violence, right? And by doing this, we’re creating anarchy. So, the police now need to step up and do their job. You know, a whole another level. But in order for them to do that they have to exercise and use force. But that’s what the whole point of this is about in the first place. So how did these guys, how do you do your job? It’s just perplexing to me and I, you know, I personally have, I’ve got three people in my immediate family that are in the law enforcement industry. So, it’s like, for me, it’s also just tough because like, I know that they’re the good apples, no one that I know, would even remotely be a racist, like, that’s just not how my family was raised. That’s just not how we operate. So, I know that they’re the good apples, but it still just gives you unnecessary stress, knowing that they’re out there, having to deal with this.
BitBoy: Yeah. And I mean, I would say like, it’s always weird when I go to other parts of the country, because I’m so used to the way we live in Atlanta, like Atlanta, to me is probably the pinnacle of race relations in the entire country. There’s a better economic disparity or less of an economic disparity between races in Atlanta. A ton of black business owners and minority business owners. I think 50% of businesses in the Atlanta area are minority owned. So, our city hasn’t really dealt with some of this stuff like others have now obviously, during the Civil Rights Movement, Atlanta was right in the middle of all that. But for me, it’s kind of hard to, like, wrap my mind around wanting to hurt somebody because of the color of their skin. And I think sometimes we kind of get caught up in all this, like, sometimes I feel like these protests are almost against an invisible enemy, because like, sometimes it’s like, who are the people that support this? Who are the people that support the killing of an innocent man? Who are they?
JChains: I mean, you got to be an idiot. You have to be an idiot. And like, one of the things, I liked what you said during the interview with Roger was, what’s the end goal here? Like we have to know what we’re– I mean, yeah, to end racism. But let’s just be like you said, realistic, right? Like, let’s find a goal that is achievable and attainable that we can get to like, maybe like the next two days, so that we can stop all this?
BitBoy: Well, when you think about it, like, I mean, it’s just common sense. Like right now there seems to be a big angry mob out there. And they’re not using common sense. Like, they could actually direct their energy into something that could actually produce change. And it has to be measurable, right? You can’t just say, ‘end racism’ that is just like saying, ‘end crime, stop drugs.’ Like, that’s not a real thing. That’s never going to happen. You can’t control the minds and the brains and the hearts of people. What you can do is you can enact legislation to help with things. So, in my opinion, that has to be what happens when you look at people that are successful. One common thing successful people have is, you know, not every successful person, but a lot of successful people, they have written goals, right? Because something that’s written and tangible and measurable, those are things you can actually achieve right? So, when you just start out, like if I said, ‘Okay, what is your goal?’ And you said, ‘My number one goal is, I want to be successful’, like, okay, but how are you going to get there? Like, ‘this is my goal, I want to be successful’ you’re not going to get there, you got a low IQ if you think that that goal is going to help you. So, I think it’s all about directing this—I’m all for the energy, I’m all for change. Let’s direct it in a way to actually enact something that can produce change, because what’s going to happen is, in three weeks, this is going to be over, it’s not going to be on the news, and then we’re not going to be talking about it. And then six months from now, we’re going to go through the exact same cycle.
JChains: I really hope that we don’t, I really hope that we don’t. But man, it’s just a crazy time. But anyhow, if you guys need some news, crypto news, show information, just visit our website sign up for our 21 Bitcoin Best Practices Guide. This way you can stay in the know, what’s going on with the show. We will always keep you up to date and what’s going on in our neck of the woods too. But I think it’s time for some Token Time.
08:07 TOKEN TIME
JChains: Alright guys for Token Time today we are talking about Bitcoin cash, BCH. Coming in at number five on the CoinMarketCap scale.
BitBoy: Yeah, and this is a coin that didn’t even exist a few years ago. Just like most coins, it had a beginning. Bitcoin cash obviously is a fork from Bitcoin and the Bitcoin cash people, such as Roger Ver will talk to you today. They’re strong proponents of believing that that is Bitcoin, that actual what we know is Bitcoin they refer to as Bitcoin Core. I made the argument before I feel like it would actually be more successful if they would just totally change the name of it, and kind of get rid of some of the stigma but they’re idealists and they strongly believe in what they believe in. So that’s why they you know, if you did understand why the people who are proponents of Bitcoin cash say it’s the real Bitcoin and Roger mentions it in this interview, is there’s one byline on the title pages, Satoshi’s White Paper that says ‘Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System.’ So, the big split between Bitcoiners and Bitcoin Cash people is whether or not, it sounds like we’re dissecting a legal document, whether or not that byline defines what Bitcoin is because the white paper has a lot of other stuff in it. But that’s the one thing that Bitcoin cash people really believe defines Bitcoin and so that’s what Bitcoin cash is trying to become is the digital currency version of Bitcoin which is really more as we know following kind of like to be an asset like gold.
JChains: Yeah, no, we’ve long said that. BTC is our digital gold and it will never really be the true transaction system that, one, it was set out to be, is one that we all want it to be. I mean, first off, it’s just too much volatility, knowing that it’s supposed to go to 100,000, there’s no way that I’m going to spend any of it on a mattress right now, right? Like, no, I don’t want to spend it because I don’t want to be sleeping on a million-dollar mattress in a couple years. Like so I think it makes more sense to have something different that wasn’t the original to be more of a payment system. So, I can see that, right? But you can also see you can make the case for Litecoin being the payment system.
BitBoy: This is where it gets tough. Yeah, this is where it gets tough because you’re right. I mean, what is to really separate Bitcoin cash from all these other things? Now they would argue it’s because it’s Bitcoin. But for most people, and this is the thing, this is the one question I wanted to get to with Roger that we unfortunately the interview did not get to ask, which is, I mean, if we’re just talking about digital cash, like what’s really to prevent a government like China or the United states from having a digital Wan or a digital dollar that’s actually a competitor to Bitcoin cash that could actually emerge as the– we love decentralization, but 99% people don’t care.
JChains: 99% of the people don’t care. And it’s not, when you have in community fighting, when you have kind of just, it’s just annoying, like when you look at like the inner workings of say, crypto Twitter, right? and like, you see, like how things work and it’s the herd mentality and people attack someone for a different coin. I mean, you’re never going to track the masses. I mean, it’s just everyone’s got to figure out a way to come together. I think, let’s find a couple solutions for a couple problems. And we’ve had this conversation with people before. It’s like I think even John McAfee said, like, ‘Oh, let’s have thousands of coins because what’s the difference?’ It’s like, well, somebody said and this is in reference to something else, but I think it could still apply to crypto and how everything goes which ‘can’t boil the ocean with a hairdryer.’
BitBoy: Yeah. That’s good, I like that.
JChains: That’s what we’re all doing, right?
BitBoy: Yeah. Well, sometimes if you got ideas or beliefs that need to be settled, you do that in a ring, okay? you go toe to toe, okay. And we’re going to talk about that in Manspreading your favorite way to go toe to toe. But just first, if you want us to talk about your coin, or you got somebody you think we should interview, then you guys head on over to t.me/beardsandbitcoins, join us on Telegram, and come tell us what kind of coins you like, chat with us drop, some memes, whatever it might be, and then we might be able to get them on the show. So, let’s go ahead and check out and let’s be dudes for a minute.
JChains: Let’s get ready to rumble. I wish I had a better Bruce Buffer but that doesn’t matter. Today for Manspreading because of the interview that we had with Roger Ver and we found out and we talked to him about being a single strip brown belt in jujitsu. I thought what a better idea than to talk about all the different fight styles. What’s your favorite fight style to watch or to participate in? I don’t fight but I do like to watch
BitBoy: Have you’ve ever been in a fist fight, Justin?
JChains: I have. Yes, I was in two fistfights growing up. One was in eighth grade; it was okay it was just a couple punches here and there. It was really weird, like, for my first time hitting somebody with a fist it was just like a strange feeling. I didn’t like it. But my second fight it was one of those I got sucker punched in the back of the head. I literally turned around with all my might and just connected it straight on the jaw and I literally did the Friday line, I stood over him and I said you got knocked up out.
BitBoy: Hah! Dude, that’s so funny. Yeah, I guess I just grew up differently than a lot of people is what I’m finding in life. Like, I grew up fighting from the time I was like, old enough to swing, swing a punch or whatever. So, I was constantly suspended in school for fighting. I got suspended, maybe we’ve talked about it before. In team sports, I was where I got the most violent because I’m so competitive. I got suspended three times in one semester in one class. Yeah, so I’ve spent more days in ISS than I spent in regular school. So, I just grew up different. I don’t know, like, I was just growing up, like, that’s just something kids did, like, fight, be violent with each other, and then I become an adult. And people all the time are like, ‘yeah, I’ve been in one fight or like, whatever. ‘That’s just where I grew up all the way through my early 20s. So as a real adult now, there’s sometimes some people who I would like to get in some fist to cuffs with but I try to show better judgment as there are legal ramifications for doing things like that these days. When you’re an adult that you don’t have when you’re a kid, you get suspended when you’re a kid you can put in jail when you’re an adult.
JChains: Unless, you could convince a fight promoter to set a whole kind of thing up in Vegas.
BitBoy: I think you’d have to have the person agree to it which probably wouldn’t happen, so but the point here is and I’ll just say this in a few weeks that’s going to be totally out of the question. So well more news on that maybe down the road but the fact is here guys, as men, like you think we’re kind of animals you know what I’m saying? Like we’d like to fight, you look at animals, you look at lions, they fight for dominance, right? As an adult you fight for dominance, or financial means or whatever it might be. But as a kid growing up, you like to watch people get hit. Like it’s fun, right?
JChains: Oh, dude, some of the best videos ever. Was that series Bum Fights?
BitBoy: Bum Fights? Let’s do it.
JChains: Oh, my god, actually. So, the other day my wife and I we’re driving down the street where we were going to the grocery store, whatever and Austin’s got a pretty large homeless population. And we were driving and out of the corner of the window, we saw a bum fight happening and maybe it’s me, maybe I’m weird but it brings me joy to see two homeless people fighting, I don’t know why.
BitBoy: That’s rough. I think you’re that person, Justin. I’m sorry. How about those Kimbo Slice fights back in the day? Those are pretty fun.
JChains: Oh my god, that was the backyard. That was like backyard fighting right?
BitBoy: Yeah, backyard fights and all that. So, we want to know from you guys, what is your favorite kind of fighting to watch? Is it MMA? You know what I’m saying, is it in the octagon? Is it organized, you got gloves on? Is that your favorite kind of thing to watch? Or is it boxing? We talked about boxing, a couple months ago, some big names kind of rising up the heavyweight division, we talked about Mike Tyson. Is it backyard fights? Is it bum fights? You just like to see people just throwing it down but no rules, unorganized. Or do you like to see the total opposite? The most scripted, but entertaining fighting there is out there, wrestling. I’ve been obsessed with watching Wrestling videos lately. I don’t know why, I can’t stop. But what do you think? Which one are you taking, J?
JChains: Man, that’s such a tough answer because each one of them have their own answer behind it, right? Because as far as aggression goes, MMA that’s like the real deal, right? Like the octagon like, you got to survive the octagon. In a bum fight. I just told you, that, like, brings me joy to watch those for some reason and it did as a child. It did the other week. Like I just it makes me laugh inside and that just whatever. Wrestling, it’s a soft spot in my heart, man. Like I grew up thinking the Hulkster, Macho Man, the Bushwhack boys or brothers or whatever? Like all of that stuff, man. Yeah, I love it. I think I’m going to have to go with bum fights.
BitBoy: Wow, okay, that’s impressive. I’m right there with the wrestling is so nostalgic. But like I don’t watch wrestling today like it’s a lot different now, it’s not as like kind of edgy as it used to be. I was a huge wrestling fan when I was a kid. For like a few years. I went and saw Goldberg at the Georgia Dome. Oh man, I went twice WCW, when was it? That’s really when I stopped liking wrestling, when WWE– the time is WWF right? it took over WCW, that was kind of my thing, it was an Atlanta thing, that’s where it was from and I loved it. I’ve got to say my favorite is a good heavyweight boxing match, like a good heavyweight boxing match. Like back in the day Lennox Lewis-Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, even recently, the Tyson Fury and Deontay Wilder, like those guys are pretty good and entertaining. So, I got to say, in my opinion, there’s nothing like a prime heavyweight boxing match. So, we hope you guys enjoyed Manspreading today. Let’s go ahead guys. Let’s jump into our interview with Roger Ver. You’re really going to enjoy this, it gives you a lot of history.
18:48 INTERVIEW WITH ROGER VER
BitBoy: Hey everybody, we are very pleased to be joined by the former CEO of Bitcoin Cash, Roger Ver. What’s your title right now?
Roger: Yeah, anyone and everyone can be the CEO of Bitcoin cash. I think you probably meant to say, Bitcoin.com.
BitBoy: Yeah, sorry.
Roger: In this case, yes, I was the founder, was the CEO for a while there as well.
BitBoy: Right. So, we’re very excited to be joined by Roger, obviously, I would personally say, you know, obviously, you’ve got some controversial stuff. But in my opinion, hardly anybody’s ever done as much for Bitcoin as you’ve done, going back even to the early days, well before the fork, so, first, when I say thank you for your contribution to the space for sure and thanks for joining us today.
Roger: Yeah, my pleasure. And thank you, too.
BitBoy: Yeah, absolutely.
JChains: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, earlier today, I mean, I saw it I know, Ben, probably you saw it and maybe some other people might need a little more information about it. But with the state of what’s going on in the world today, Roger, like you put out a video that really details a personal experience that you’ve had with law enforcement. Now, it maybe wasn’t a racial injustice, but it’s still a criminal injustice with a broken system. You mind just given a brief little example or a story from that, just so people to understand, kind of what happened to you?
Roger: Yeah, so long story short, I had a bunch of stuff stolen from me, I found the stuff that was stolen, I told the police, ‘hey, I found this stuff that was stolen, please get it back to me.’ They did nothing, they absolutely refused to even lift a finger to help in regards to that, it really left a bad taste in my mouth. But I have a bunch more stories like that as well. Now I recorded a few of them, they’ll be coming out day by day on my own YouTube channel there as well and on LibraryV and some other places as well. Because there’s a whole another thing we’ve talked about is the censorship going on YouTube and these other platforms as well.
BitBoy: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I’ve experienced it just over the last week or so. As a content creator, I’m very well versed with the analytics that go on behind the scene with the videos. And so, some people might say like, ‘Oh, you know, just the interest in Bitcoin is down’ or whatever they say when the numbers drop, but you can clearly see a difference. One video I did last week they got heavily censored was about the big banks. We’re talking about Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, and that video was censored, looking at the statistics there’s no question about it. So good to see you using some decentralized options. I’m also on LBRY as well. So, is that your favorite decentralized place to upload?
Roger: Yeah, I think I’m still trying to find my favorite one. Maybe it’ll wind up being a library, maybe it’ll be DTube. There’s a couple of them out there. And I don’t really know which one is my favorite yet. I’m trying them all.
BitBoy: Good. So, let’s get a little more back into the issue we were just talking about which was the rioting, police injustice. Here is my issue and I’ve been bringing up this issue on, you know, with my TikTok account, I did a video about this. I’m going to talk about a little bit on my YouTube channel this week, but my main issue with the riots that are going on right now are the protests, you know, whatever you want to call them, the looting, peaceful, whatever the entire spectrum, is it to me, it seems like there needs to be an end goal, like there needs to be something that is actually trying to get changed. Other than just ‘world peace, stop racism, equality for all.’ Like, those are ideals. We understand that like, nobody’s ever going to line up exactly in that way of thinking. So, to me, like you had to put in like more tangible things that can actually make a difference and bring out change in the country. Do you have any, like, when you think about all this that’s going on, what would you say would be a good end goal? Like something we could actually look to be measurable we could change?
Roger: Yeah, I think you’ve assessed the problem, like what is the end goal that we should all be working towards? And I think the best rule of thumb they never taught me in school or anywhere else is just the idea of voluntarism. All human interactions should be on a voluntary basis or not at all, you should have mutual consent with all your interactions. And that’s how almost everybody deals with everybody else in their daily lives, with the exception of looters and robbers and rapists and murderers and government. And everybody just turns this giant blind eye when government uses violence against peaceful people and they think that it doesn’t count as violence when people put on costumes with little badges on it, working buildings with flags on the front but if you stop and think for a minute like that shouldn’t change it at all so like the same rules of morality should apply to everybody whether or not they work for the state. And I think we need to have consistency across the board for everybody in every country everywhere. Like using violence against peaceful people, is not okay. And even if you call yourself a government, it still doesn’t make it okay. And we’re seeing lots of people with the looting and whatnot. I think there’s lots of people out there that are marching because they’re genuinely upset about the injustice and the treatment by police and I think there’s a bunch of other people out there that don’t have good morals and they say ‘Oh, this is an excuse for me to kick down the windows at Nike store and steal some new shoes’ like, that’s not okay. And it’s really disappointing to see these things getting mixed together in the world.
JChains: I think the opportunists, I think is what they’re calling them on the media, those people are, they’ve really kind of made us all lose sight of what this is all about, like in the first place and I get it, people are mad and people want to be heard. But when we just got to do it in a better way. And there is a better way to do it.
Roger: Yes, stealing from people that had nothing to do with the guy, getting the knee across his neck and choked to death, like Starbucks had nothing to do other than Starbucks was forced to pay for the police officer’s salary that did that. But Starbucks is the willing participant there. So, like, don’t go and kick down the windows of Target and AutoZone and this and that, like, leave the private businesses alone.
BitBoy: Yeah, I think you really hit on something, I think very important, which is the continuum of crime versus law enforcement, like everyone’s upset about the way that the law enforcement is going about their business and doing what they should be doing. But I think they should also be equally as upset with the other end of the spectrum because the more crime that we have, the more that people are, like you said, not showing that mutual consent, they’re breaking in, they’re hurting other people, they’re being violent, whatever the case may be, that brings up the need for law enforcement, right? So, if we can kind of get to this point where we just understand like, ‘Hey, let’s just pull back on both sides here.’ And I think we’ll have a much more peaceful society.
Roger: Very well put, yeah, let’s, let’s pull back on both sides—the violence from the private sector and pull back on the violence of the state. And we’ll have a less violent world and I’m totally onboard with that mission.
JChains: Yeah, I think that and privatizing police and or having more security force would be a better idea than having, you know, policing, coming from the government level, at least the state and local level, because it’s just not working. It just isn’t right now and because they can’t fight this force with force because it’s making the problem even worse. So how do you do your job when you need to do your job? It’s just impossible.
Roger: Yeah, there’s zero accountability with the police. There’s basically none and ask yourself, if you’re out around in public, and a police officer is near you probably feel less safe rather than safer. But if you’re at the shopping mall and a private security guard is near you, you don’t worry one bit, you think ‘Oh great here’s the guy who’s keeping things here’. You’re not worried, he’s going to harass you and search you or anything like that if you’re not up to no good you’re not going to have a problem with them, with the normal police, no matter what you’re doing, there’s a good chance you’re going to have a problem if they come near you. So, it’s a difference in the in the level of accountability
JChains: You say mall cop and my mind just go straight to Paul Blart.
BitBoy: Such a funny movie, the heyday of Kevin James. But all this brings up an interesting point about your background which is obviously, I don’t know what you kind of consider yourself to be like anarchist, ‘anti establishmentaterian’?
Roger: I like the word ‘Voluntaryist’, right?
BitBoy: ‘Voluntaryist’ okay.
Roger: It should be simple, like everything should be voluntary.
BitBoy: Right. And so obviously, you know, Bitcoin was kind of founded on this idea of freedom and a lot of the ideals, Libertarianism, there’s a lot of shades of that involved. No one represents all that in my opinion better than you and we have other people like, Erik Voorhees who started out that way and now kind of gone in a different direction, almost forced to in a lot of ways by business deals but I love the book ‘Bitcoin Billionaires’ I don’t read books a lot like, sorry, guys, I don’t read a lot of books. I read a lot of tweets.
JChains: News Flash.
BitBoy: Nerd alert, but, I did actually listen to that whole entire audio book and I was really fascinated with their characterization of you. And one of the points that I really wanted to– I mean, you were kind of almost made out to be the villain in the book. But one of the points that I wanted to bring up was at some point, the Winklevoss Twins said that, basically, you are the “old guard of crypto”. There was a time when the libertarian kind of ideals were very important to get Bitcoin off the ground. But now it needs a more professional, more traditional investor outlook to be able to push it to the next level and I can kind of see that but I really want to get your opinion on that characterization and what your thoughts are on that.
Roger: Yeah, I don’t think I disagree actually. So, it was the Libertarians and the Voluntaryist and the people that wanted money outside of government control, were the ones that got Bitcoin started, were the ones who got Bitcoin to where it was. All of my marketing efforts in the early days were focused towards libertarians primarily in New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project. So, I gave away Bitcoin to all of them. I brought a bunch of physical Bitcoins and handed them out at the campground at the PorcFest camping event up there in 2012. And I focused all my attention on those people, and that’s what brought Bitcoin from zero to one. And now Bitcoin to go from one to 100. It’s going to take people that aren’t libertarians, they’re not crypto anarchists. They’ve never heard of the word voluntarism. They don’t know who Murray Rothbard or Lysander Spooner or any of these other great thinkers and the vast majority of society don’t know who those people are, but that’s fine. If we can make cryptocurrency useful to those people. It’s going to have more adoption, but I think we saw the real big difference in philosophy. When Charlie Shrem, a BitInstant got arrested. I was the first investor in BitInstant, put up, it was $125,000 of my own money. And then the Winklevoss came in a year or so later, and we’re looking to invest there. And then Charlie got arrested for allegedly having sold Bitcoin to someone who sold Bitcoin to somebody who might have used that Bitcoin to buy drugs, maybe. And so my statement to the public there is that ‘well, it’s the police, the judges and law enforcement agents that are prosecuting people for buying, selling and using drugs that are the bad guys, and they need to stop. And that they should leave Charlie alone and leave everybody else alone, that’s just trying to peacefully buy and sell things’ and the Winklevoss’ statement to the public is, was something along the lines of ‘we are shocked that Charlie would do this and we fully support law enforcement’ and they basically said throw the book at him and it’s just such a different philosophy there. What Charlie did was naive in the sense that he thought that the government wasn’t going to come after him for it, but it wasn’t anything morally wrong. Like he sold Bitcoin to someone who’s sold Bitcoin to someone who might have used it to buy drugs like I don’t have any problem with that at all. I think doing drugs is stupid. But if people want to do it like lots of people obviously love and use them and enjoy them a lot and the fact that people are willing to risk decades in prison to get drugs must mean that there’s something that people find highly enjoyable about them otherwise they wouldn’t be willing to risk such severe penalties to get them
BitBoy: Yeah, absolutely. That’s very well put, that’s a very interesting philosophy you have on all that. I was expecting probably a different answer. So yeah, I mean, to get Bitcoin really going, we gotta push it out, more to the masses and I guess, almost by proxy, it will bring more people kind of the idea of freedom is what it sounds like you’re saying. so But let’s talk about Bitcoin cash, because obviously, this like you said, You had been involved with Bitcoin.com for quite a while, obviously, there’s been some backlash you’ve taken for some of the things, the marketing or what you want to call it, whatever it might be. But I think when people get past the memes—the famous picture of you on the with the finger up and all that stuff—when people get past all that I think that if they’re intellectually honest, they will really understand that Bitcoin what we all know is Bitcoin on CoinMarketCap, Bitcoin, is never going to be the digital currency that it was meant to be, it’s just not going to be. So, what role do you see Bitcoin cash playing there? Do you see that actually being— what is your vision for the adoption of Bitcoin Cash as digital currency?
Roger: Yeah my vision for the adoption of Bitcoin Cash is the exact same vision I had for Bitcoin back in 2011 when I first got started with it, it was supposed to be super-fast, super cheap, super reliable and super private peer-to-peer electronic cash for the world. And that’s what everybody thought Bitcoin was back then. And through a whole story that a whole another book can be written about somehow Bitcoin no longer is that, the thing that everybody’s calling Bitcoin today is no longer trying to be a peer-to-peer electronic cash system, even though that’s the very title of the original Bitcoin White Paper and so if the Bitcoin White Paper doesn’t describe what everybody’s calling Bitcoin today, I would argue that the thing that everybody’s calling Bitcoin today isn’t a Bitcoin despite the fact that everybody’s calling it that. So, if you call a rock, a shoe, over and over and over again even though the rock doesn’t work as a shoe, it doesn’t mean the rock has become a shoe. And I kind of see that with Bitcoin now, everyone’s calling it Bitcoin. But it’s not the peer-to-peer electronic cash system that had everybody excited about to begin with. That version of Bitcoin is Bitcoin cash at this point, so you can spend it in more than 100,000 locations. The transaction fees are basically free with things like Cash Shuffle, and Cash Fusion. The transactions are basically totally private, there’s actually with Cash Fusion, there are more different ways your Bitcoin cash gets shuffled up, then there are a number of atoms in the entire universe. So that’s a really, really big number. So that’s a really big deal and that’s one of the things I’m probably the most excited about this year is we’re going to roll that out to being directly inside the Bitcoin.com wallet. So, every person that’s using Bitcoin cash in their Bitcoin.com wallet will have basically totally private Bitcoin Cash transactions and I think that’s a really big deal. So, I’m still excited today in 2020 for the exact same reasons I was excited about Bitcoin in 2011. But the thing that I’m excited about today is Bitcoin Cash, but to me, it’s the same. It’s the same thing. It’s the same vision. It’s the same tool. And if you aren’t excited about Bitcoin Cash today, then you wouldn’t have been excited about Bitcoin in 2010, 2011, 2012. Because Bitcoin Cash is that vision and is that goal today.
JChains: That makes sense, that definitely makes sense. Alright, let me switch gears a little bit here because I know after we’re done talking here, you are going to practice and you do Jiu Jitsu, you’re a brown belt, right?
Roger: I am, yeah.
JChains: Alright, so how long have you been practicing? How long does it take you to earn a brown belt, like what are the next steps from there as well?
Roger: Well, the next step will be a couple of stripes and then my black belts. I’ve blood stripes of a brown belt with one stripe and I need to train more, I need to practice more. I need to do some tournaments more and I need to do it before I get too old. So that’s the Coronavirus and worldwide lock down and now riots haven’t helped that training session too much, but we have a good group. Actually, I have gone recently and I’ve been getting some decent training in the last couple of weeks again, after having what, two and a half months out with a worldwide lockdown. I really love it. And for anybody who hasn’t tried Jiu Jitsu, it’s like the closest thing to having magic powers out there. So, I guess a little funny side note, like I’ve done hundreds, if not thousands of interviews. On one particular interview, I lost my temper and I gave this guy the middle finger. If you watch the whole interview, he was intentionally just trying to push all my buttons the whole time.
BitBoy: He was.
Roger: But I think he didn’t realize until someone else set him straight. I still have you guys on the call?
BitBoy: Yeah, you’re still here.
Roger: Somebody set him straight, but he was talking about how he wanted to have, and he has no martial arts experience whatsoever, but he wanted to have an MMA cage fight with me, and I don’t think that would go too well. I have seven years of wrestling experience and more than a decade of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu experience. It tempted me. But, I do it more as a hobby and a sport rather than a way to hurt somebody. But it certainly was tempting.
JChains: So, you don’t have to answer this question if you don’t want to, but I’m going to ask it anyway. Because chicks love bad boys, right, between the jiu-jitsu between the prison bid, and between your position in the crypto space being a wealthy individual man, what gets you more chicks?
Roger: Oh, man, that’s a good question. Nobody’s asked me that question before. I think all three of those things combined are like they’re feel super powerful.
JChains: There we go, the Trifecta right there. There we go.
Roger: The Trifecta, that’s right.
BitBoy: The Trifecta. Wow, that’s awesome.
BitBoy: Yeah, I know I have some, some rules about fighting. Like, I haven’t been in a physical fight in some years okay, but when I was younger, I had quite a lot. Okay, but I always had some rules, okay? The number one rule was do not ever fight anyone wearing a Looney Tunes shirt. That’s the rule. If someone is competent enough to wear a Tasmanian Devil bandana around in public, you do not want to eff with that guy, okay? That’s number one. And number two, anyone who wrestled in college like those are people I do not want to get involved with those people. Somebody wrestled in college, anybody can wrestle in high school. Anybody can, “Oh I wrestled in high school’ if you wrestle in college, I mean, you’re pretty good and you guys have moves I don’t. ever want to go toe to toe with somebody that’s got way more training than me for sure.
JChains: Just look for the cauliflower ear. Stay away from it.
BitBoy: Stay away from the cauliflower ear. That is definitely a good one.
BitBoy: So, okay, well I guess that’s probably about all we got for you today. Is there anything you want to kind of say about, I know that I think there’s some kind of controversy going on with a maybe a new fork with Bitcoin Cash. I think you were talking about maybe leaving crypto over it or something like that. Any kind of comment you want you want to make about that current controversy?
Roger: Anything that’s important, people are going to argue over and so Bitcoin has his money on the line so people are going to argue extra passionately about it. But no, I think there’s been a decentralization of the different cryptocurrencies and there’s a couple thousand of them out there that that’s just fine. And people can choose the ones that are the most useful to them in their lives, and if Bitcoin Cash kind of split, I doubt it. But if it does, that’s okay, too. One more piece in the decentralization pie out there. And I apologize for touching the phone. The guy was calling over and over and over again.
BitBoy: No, it’s okay. We understand, things happen. So well, we just really appreciate you joining us today. You’re like I said one of the most respected people in the crypto space for sure. And like I said in the beginning, I’ve done a pretty good amount of research on you over the years, I couldn’t remember that you’re with Bitcoin.com, not Bitcoin cash. But aside from that, in the beginning, I’m very familiar with a lot of your contributions to the space and early investing in crypto projects. And that definitely, a lot of ways if it wasn’t for you, I think we wouldn’t be here today. So, just definitely want to express that to you and thank you so much for joining us today.
Roger: My pleasure and thank you for that. And if people want to give this all a try, actually, there’s a new website that I’m not affiliated with in any way, but it’s an amazing example, head on over to Blockchain.poker. And you can see Bitcoin cash, Bitcoin and even BSV all in action over there and you can play poker with people all around the world and it’s just truly is magic Internet money. So, I’ve really been a fan of the useful use cases, leading new people to cryptos. That’s blockchain.poker for anyone who wants to try.
BitBoy: All right, awesome. We’ll check that
Roger: And they paid me nothing to say that.
BitBoy: I’m a big poker fan. I was actually me and my best friend. We’re looking at going on a trip to play poker. And we realize you can’t even go play poker right now. They got sneeze guards around the table, before your forehand, you know. So, we’re going to hold that off for a bit, but we’ll definitely check out blockchain poker, blockchain.poker. And thank you for joining us and we will talk to you later.
Roger: Thanks, guys.
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Episode 94: Roger Ver Interview: Electronic Cash